Deal lauren. I am a fan of mars and venus books and i have all the collection. I also recommended the books to my friends. But i still need your advice , my bf broke up with me 4 months ago. he felt overwhelmed, asked space and said he has nothing to say other than he needs to be alone. Since than i tried everything includinf suggesting to be friends and told him im over the break up and want my friend back. We work together, we were close friends for 6 months and we dated for 4 months. So after the friendship speech, he panicked and ended the conversation by saying lets keep it simple and move on. So i decided to start a true limited contact ( since i hv to work with him daily), since than he called once for work purpose (i think) but didnt answer him, he asked once how i was doing ( i replied im gd only) he tried a few jokes, and we met at a friends wedding so he invited me to dance with our other friends but i declined. I am commited to NC. He also invited me for a coffee at the work coffee shop and touched my hand once. My reactions were simple and didnt show attention or neediness. Than suddenly he went distant again and start ignoring me all over again. Im completly lost. I thought he starts to get closer!!!Please advice. Thank you ...
Some times I want to take this manly-man, guys-guy & shake him & say what the hell is wrong with you?!! (Many people want to do that for me right now.) but instead, I rush to tell him I love him & smother him with kind words & gushy love stuff. And he pulls away even further. Now, I am reminded of how in the beginning I gave this man his space & his time whenever I sensed he needed it, I had no control over it or him anyway, why fight it & push him farther away? I remember a day when he grabbed, pulled me close, kissed me, & thanked me for understanding & giving him his time. I would give anything for that moment to happen again, because it was real, & genuine. He was really happy at that moment & wanted me to know it.
√We’ve contacted each other only a few times since the breakup. Recently he called me after 10:00 pm to chat since I was going away to work out of town. I missed his call so i called him back about an hour& 1/2 later. He called again to wish me happy birthday Early in the a.m. I picked up and the convo was nice. He’s pulled back tho now. Deliberately I feel…or moved on… Whatever the case,I don’t know how to deal with my feelings.I want to contact him but I don’t know if I should. I’m in paint from missing him and not having the guts to tell him. I’ve gone out with one other guys since then and even worked a lot,still he stays on my mind.
No Contact Rule: How Long Should You Do It For? The No Contact Rule: Everything You Need To Know The Real Reasons Men Don’t Text Back: The Ultimate “Do’s and Don’ts” Guide To Texting Exactly How To Make Your Ex Miss You After A Breakup The Exact Reasons Why The No Contact Rule Works Every Time Why Men Pull Away: 3 Easy Ways To Stop A Man From Withdrawing
On a scientific level, men start to feel uneasy when they bond with a woman too much. Bonding releases the love hormone, Oxytocin. In woman, this hormone reduces stress, but for a man, it actually lowers his testosterone levels which can then increase stress. Men need time to pull back from all that bonding and build back their testosterone levels.
Getting an ex girlfriend back is probably not going to be done strictly through text messages. It will probably take conversations on the phone and in person to achieve that goal. So, I think it’s best if you manage your expectations when it comes to texting. Rather than viewing it as the “go to” tactic for getting her back the smarter way to approach it is to view it as a stepping stone to getting her back.
Some times I want to take this manly-man, guys-guy & shake him & say what the hell is wrong with you?!! (Many people want to do that for me right now.) but instead, I rush to tell him I love him & smother him with kind words & gushy love stuff. And he pulls away even further. Now, I am reminded of how in the beginning I gave this man his space & his time whenever I sensed he needed it, I had no control over it or him anyway, why fight it & push him farther away? I remember a day when he grabbed, pulled me close, kissed me, & thanked me for understanding & giving him his time. I would give anything for that moment to happen again, because it was real, & genuine. He was really happy at that moment & wanted me to know it.
First things first, you are going to become the sexiest version of yourself that the world has ever seen. Let’s say you and I were dating and we had a fight and broke up (I know I am a horrible boyfriend 😉 .) Anyways, after a month of you basically freezing me out (no contact) I happen to bump into you at a Starbucks or somewhere where we both frequented. The first thought I have of our encounter will be based on the choices that you made during the 30 day no contact period. If you sat around feeling sorry for yourself and ate ice cream on the couch all day I will probably think “she looks terrible.” However, if you spent that no contact time working on yourself physically and mentally I am probably going to think “WOW! She is even more beautiful than I remember.”
My ex broke up with me almost a month ago. We went about 18 days with no contact whatsoever. I’ve reached out to him via text, and am trying to keep the conversations neutral as possible (it’s still pretty hard for me to talk to him without getting emotional, so texting is the best way I can communicate right now, so he couldn’t hear me over the phone, etc.), and the texting is at the point where I’m not overbearing (we’ve had small exchanges every couple of days). I’ve initiated them all, however. Now I’m wondering if I should go back to a no-contact period. He’s never been the one to initiate much conversation with anyone, including those outside of me. Help?
Here is the thing. You want to focus on you not only because this is healthy which is the main reason and you're putting yourself first but by putting yourself first he will want you more. There is a deep desire for people to be with someone that puts themselves first. I would not only follow his lead. Make sure you are not too available in the process and really schedule time for you. Then take control back a little bit so you can eventually see where this is headed.

I havnt texted him since nor have he reached out. Sigh I guess blow this , What to do now, surely feeling stuck to win him back. I shouldnt have done the letter because now he knows I want him back sigh this sucks. Not sure how to reverse that either. Timeline of contact & no contact. After the break up we went one week no contact and the week after that on a Monday I initiate contact so that he but his half the pay the bills. The Tuesday he initiated contact that he have paid his half. It was more a business conversation. On Wednesday was my birthday and he initiated contact through text to enjoy my day On the 22 he initiated contact that he was coming by the house, I didn't answer and 29 of November he initiated contact again Stating he was coming by the house I didn't answer. The reason I didn't respond was because he at the time he had my house keys so he had access, whenever he wants. He sent another text on the 29th Asking if I had paid a bill only then I respond. During this same week, I knew he was angry since his coworker told me that they didn't kiss, since her called got transferred to my phone and I ask her and she told him that I ask her. He then called me 7 times back to back but I didn't answer. I went 2 weeks no contact although he was the one to contact. On the 1st December I initiated contact asking if we could talk just to tell him what's going on that when he came to the house for the clothing. Since Monday December 5 2016 he haven't reach out and so I sent a text 10 December "you are truly one for a kind, unique in every way. I am so glad I met you because there is nobody else like you in the world" and today I2 December I sent " You changed me in positive ways that I am still just starting to understand" I got no response, should I cut off contact, or have I just blow my chances of getting him back. Sigh Add a comment......
We met at a line dancing place last Sept. I liked him, so I was always trying to get his attention u know. One night we sort of talked and I taught him how to do a couple of dances, and then he came over to our table and met my friends. He and my sisters boyfriend are friends now. So we kind of slipped into liking each other and we would always dance together and sit together, and he would put his arm around me and hold my hand and stuff like that. And then on weekends our group would get together and have movie nights. So we were together for about two months and then I went with him to his family Christmas and met his mom and dad. But after that he started to withdraw a little and he would go talk to other people at dancing and would start ignoring me. Then after dancing he would stick around and talk and hug me and stuff. That made me mad that he would ignore me, and then after dancing want attention. So that kept happening, and he kept pulling further away, until finally he started dancing with another girl. In March I finally called him and told him to tell me what was happening. He said he didn’t know what he wanted, and that it’s not me it’s him. And when I asked him if he wanted to be done, he kept saying “I don’t know”.
My girlfriend and I have been together for 15 months and we are facing a major problem. I just want to start off with saying that she’s the one that recommended me to ask you for advice because right now, I am pretty much confused to do at this point. My girlfriend has told you about what she did when she went over to that guys house and about another guy who is a co-volunteer that volunteers at the nursing home as she does. I have gotten numerous screenshots about she herself committing to what she have done, which is cheating. I also have her best friends claiming those that she did do those things. When i confronted her for the first time she only told me one third of it. Again i find there’s more to the story from her friends. Again i try confronting her and now she told me 2/3. You know where I’m going with this. Anyway now that everything has been cleared out, i asked her why. She told me “i just said all those things because out of anger”. But then i asked her why would she say that. She was angry at me at the time when this occurred so i would understand that she could be saying this out of anger but why not clear this out with her friends? Plus this been hidden for 6 months so why this long? Also one of my friends saw her but they said nothing was happening, just her and this guy in the park talking. I let that go. Then another friend who is currently dating one of her ex-best friends told me that she told him about her cheating. I asked him why would she say that and he said that she was claiming to hurt me by the way is not because she kept it hidden. I asked her about that too and she claims the something, it was out of anger she said all those things to hurt me. This situation happened throughout last summer. I admit that i did not reply to her text for 2 days and keep making her feel bad but i always made sure to make up for that. Now we are trying to work things out but I’m still something sort of confused what to do, so that’s why i writing to you for some advise.
If you cannot control your feelings, then I would suggest for you not to maintain a relationship with this person. Furthermore, I always think it’s vital to any starting point in dating or a relationship to be clear about each other’s expectations. If you are looking for a relationship, then let the other person know early on! If not, then say so. There have been too many times that I’ve seen a woman dating a man for months on end, only to end up getting hurt because it became a purely physical “modern relationship” in which the man never truly committed. The two never set the expectations for a relationship, or the woman sat in silence out of fear of being pushed away, hoping he would come around.
Hi Ray! Thank you very much for the male perspective. I am dating a man who is 11 years older, I’m 26 and he is 37. He works out in the ocean and a lot of times we have minimal conversation via text/call. But when we are together everything is great and we get along very well. When he doesn’t have to wake in the wee ours or work out of town, he is with me every single weekend. We have been together six months and I have met all his close friends and friends kids. I have done well so far in respecting his space. When he’s a weekend with his guy friends, I am understanding and just ask him to contact me once when he is back in town so he feels he is not missing out on what he loves. However, this past weekend he had a sailboat race on the weekend which he let me know in advance and we had plans for friday night. He reached out friday night saying that turns out he had to be at the venue in the wee hours so he would not be able to make our plans. I was emotionally unstable that weekend due to some work stress and family leaving so I needed him the most that friday. I did not think of my actions and instead of politely rescheduling for Monday, I blew him up – sent him various texts showing how I did not appreciate he canceled although it wasn’t his fault. I called numerous times in the weekend and texted many times while he was supposed to have time with his friends in the tournament. On Sunday I was so desperate that I passed by his house. His roomate was there and told me he hand’t come home yet. Since I blew him up friday, I have had no response to any of my texts nor has he answered any of my calls. I am very afraid that I scared him away and threatened his freedom. I also came out as desperate for going to his place. Today is Wednesday and I hadn’t reached out till Sunday. I sent him a very short/casual text apologizing for taking out my stress on him and for not letting him have his space, to which I got no response. I am going to wait a few days and hopefully he will come around, as our relationship has matured and he’s told me how much he cares for me. Did I blow this up completely since it has been 4 days with no response?
Found out a guy who I was secretly in love with for 9’years also had feelings for me. He reached out to me first and we connected immediately (even though We had been aquentinces) . Intense chemistry, he was telling me within weeks that he was falling for me, that he would go through his horrible divorce all over again of it meant being with me, how beautiful I am, how refreshing it is to have someone who gets his large family and who already knows them, included me in days with his daughter, we slept together 2x, he would… Read more »
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I met a guy whilst on holiday in Egypt. He seemed really lovely and we saw each other every day and eventually went to his flat ad stayed there at night with him so we were spending 24 hours a day together. Hr said he loves me and wants to marry me I didn’t take it too serious but then I found I had called for him. On my last day he gave me his number and Facebook. When I got back to England I looked at his Facebook it was all women tourists which he has commented on their wall my love habibi and sending hearts to them. The two profiles I could see were a year ago these comments were made but I would not have gone there at all of I had of seen this to start with. He also had one for Arab friends. I went to finish it because I am 43 and he is 26 and I can’t be doing with the drama of Facebook. He never added me but said he would delete his facebooks it took him a couple of weeks but he did it. I said messenger as well because of all these women he had contact with. He said he would and he did. We have spoken everyday and night then hr started no messaging me at night his cousin told me he takes women out shopping at night for money so when he wasn’t messaging me he was doing that and he was saying no women. I made a fake profile of a woman who was gorgeous and he added her on messenger before he deleted it.It came to a massive argument he said I was jealous etc and he said he wanted to finish it. I did a terrible thing and emailed his work and told them he was taking women outside the hotel (they aren’t supposed to) and he got fired. When I got a response from the hotel they said this isn’t the first or last time it will happen that’s why he got fired. We still were speaker he was still telling me he loved me and messaging me but he was sad about loosing his job and I feel so guilty I just got sick of the lies (if they are lies) I was to meet his family and then we were planning to get married. I forgave him for all that because I know I can be jealous. I don’t know if it because I wouldn’t act like this when I have a boyfriend. Anyway a week ago he sent me a message saying I will need forgive you for loosing my job no work etc. Although I had sent money equilvilent to his monthly salary that he lost and said I would do it every month till he gets a job because his family rely on HIM for money. We had a n arguement he blocked me off wats app downloaded messenger again. I downloaded viber a day later and said I loved him he said he loved me and missed me and hr wasnt going to delete messenger although he says he wants this to speak to his family he has gone to see his family so I wander is he speaking to the women he had on Facebook? He hadn’t initially told his mom about me sending and email to his work bit has now told her she says I am bad and he isn’t to marry me he said loves me still I said I will leave him till he has got rid off messenger. He said OK I love you and that was three days ago. I read this article and feel better but I do miss him but do wander is it worth all the bother with this silly apps x
Hey I am currently dealing with this with my boyfriend I just came across these tips I don’t think its too late to try. My boyfriend and I have been together for 7 years and we have conceived two children within our relationship a 4year old girl and 2year old boy. Lately my boyfriend has been under tremendous stress and I haven’t acknowledged that so I was adding on to his stress by arguing and nagging I ended up pushing him away now and I think for good this morning before he left he said hes done for good because I kept forcing to fix the problem. I’m struggling on giving him his space because we live together in a studio its hard to walk past him everyday and just not talk to him. How do I give him his space and just have distance I am a stay at home mom so I don’t work and I don’t leave the house I’m home with my kids. Any tips on how to enforce the space so he can clear hos mind I know he loves me dearly hes just very stressed out and wants to clear his mind on his own he said so himself.
Everything was going very fine, and suddenly he messaged me that he doesn’t even want to be with me anymore because he doesn’t feel for me the same way he did. Everyday he was like, he is not going to come back and all. When i came from my home to my college, he is also in the same college, we met again, but still he was like doesn’t have feelings. We spent time as he was clearing the facts that he doesn’t feel for me but still care for me. We shared some intimate moments and he is like that was only one moment, that’s it. How come feelings got vanished suddenly. We never fought and I supported him a lot in every aspect. i have tried so many things to save this relation.
I’m on the other side of the coin. I’ve been dating a woman for three years and she is a raging workaholic. We rarely spend time together, if we do she falls asleep, or we have time to do nothing because she always has to be AT WORK. Living together would solve some of the problems but she always has an excuse as to why she works all the time or some martyr-ific After two years, I’ve finally gotten tired of trying to communicate my feelings and am taking time for myself. It’s hard to talk when you feel that someone is not listening.
First, I think it is important to understand how jealousy can work to your advantage. Since I am a male I feel I can explain my genders feelings towards this particular topic. In my opinion I think it is ok to get jealous. However, I don’t think it is ok to get overly jealous. If your ex boyfriend would get jealous every time you would talk to another man or every time you went out then I would say you should really revisit your thinking on getting back together with him. Nevertheless, I want to tell you an interesting story about jealousy.
It doesn’t matter if right now, you’re sad about what has happened to you in the past, or maybe even angry that someone has done you wrong, it will all change in the future. You’re about to learn some of the most closely guarded secrets to help you succeed in dating and relationships with men. There are many articles on this website, but there are much more exclusive (not on the website) content inside my private newsletters. So join me.
Hi Lauren, i had recently bought the book men are from mars and women are from Venus, it has brought me to try and discover more wonderful information on your page. My boyfriend of three years had recently just left me about a month an a half ago, we had just moved in together and were only living at our apartment for 2 months before he decided to lay the break up on me. He says he needs to find himself and his happiness, this term is still so confusing for me when things for the past three years were going so well. and just 2 weeks before he broke up with me he had talked about marrying me wanting to spend the rest of his life with me. as soon as he left the apartment and packed his things he doesn't want to see me or doesn't really talk to me and whenever we do talk it always ends up in the both of breaking down crying because its so sad. he has told me that he still loves me deeply and cares about me but doesn't want to be in a relationship right now. I have no idea really what to take from all this, i know that i may have smothered him to much in the relationship but at the time i did not know what i had been doing i do know that i some how contributed to this traumatic event. but he is making it seem like its totally over and he is just cutting things cold turkey. i never seen this break up coming and he said to me that it just happened and he didn't even realize he was going to do it. after three years of being together hes acting as if he doesn't even know me. i just need some advice of insight on what might be happening to him or me right now for this to take place? ...
In addition to the pulling away he is very cruel when he drinks. Calling me horrible names and tries to make me feel beneath him. I know this is huge red flags but love makes us do crazy things. We’re both sexually open minded but he tells me I’m a liar about talking about having another woman intimately. I feel him and I aren’t ready for this. At least I’m not ready. It’s a unhealthy dysfunctional relationship and while he has his faults I know I push him to the limits. (Blowing up how phone etc)
 7. Think small, think success. The hug is actually a good place to start. Because change creates anxiety, both change and anxiety are best tolerated in smaller doses. Because the goal is to break patterns, to do it different rather than doing it right, you don’t need to think make-over or major campaign. Instead, you simply want to step outside your comfort zone and take concrete steps, however small, that you can successfully do. So try the hug, and if that seems too tough, start with ramping up compliments or writing a note letting the other know how you have been feeling just to get things rolling. 

It was good, but the toxic feelings from the first breakup followed us wherever we went. Mary had let go of that fun-in-the-sun, summer-fling, freewheelin’ attitude I had desperately tried and failed to bring to our last relationship. She had made new friends and learned valuable lessons since our breakup, the biggest one being that guys who try to hold on to their high school ex-girlfriends are as dumb as they are stupid.

Hi, Brad Browning here, breakup coach and author of the Ex Factor Guide… and in this video I’m going to teach you how to win your ex back by simply texting on your phone. I know, I know…there’s a lot more to winning your ex back than sending some text messages. But texting can be an extremely effective method of establishing rapport, trust, and attraction with your ex... if executed correctly. BUT if you have no idea what you’re doing, then texting your ex can be a one-way ticket to “staying single and looking desperate.” So watch this video to the very end if you want to learn exactly how to “text your ex back” correctly.
hello! well i ve read this article and i want to share my story also. I met this guy online and we "clicked" immediately. we 've been texting-videocalling all the time and he told me from the beginning he was looking for sth serious etc. He called all the time and texted A LOT. we werent in a relationship since we haven't met yet but we promised to meet in 4 months from now. the thing is he became a lot more distant this week. he doesn't call or text as often. dont get me wrong he still does but if he sent 20 messages a day now he sends 5 . maybe he got scared because i am kind of clingy sometimes but at the beginning he seemed to not bother at all. i like him so much and i am afraid he might bail on me . what should i do? as far as i know asking him is not a good idea right?
How do you get over somebody that you work with? Obviously NC is impossible in this situation. Luckily for me, she works out in the field (not literally in a field btw) and I work in the office. So I really only see her about once a week if that. But….. I still do have to communicate with her several times a day every day either by phone or by text for work.
my boyfriend and I have been dating for almost 6 years ,almost evrytime i visit him, hes always playing games with his phone and when i tell him that its wrong and i dont like it ,he will stop and the following day he does the same thing playing games again in my presence. i recently told him again and he said we need space because i was angry and shouting at him .its been two weeks now ,we not talking to each other .so i just want to know what should i do in this regard?
The day after the breakup, I found Coach Lee’s videos, and immediately went into no contact. I watched the ones that pertained to my situation over and over again. It was the most difficult time for me. It took every ounce of my being not to reach out, to beg for another chance, or even an opportunity to talk. When the urges occurred, I would watch a video and get past the urge. I had good and bad days, but mostly bad. When starting no contact, I also took Coach Lee’s valuable advice of not using this mentally  as a weapon for getting her back, but a way of working on myself, and giving space and time to heal. I lost weight, dated other people, went out and did things that I liked, and created a life and identity for myself. A little under 2 months later, I received a text from her telling me how weird it had been not having me around, and that she missed me, and wanted to be friends. I then started watching Coach Lee’s great videos about when the ex reaches out and again, followed his advice to the tee. I was pretty much over her at that point and told her that I was not interested in friendship, but that we should meet and catch up. I was a new person. Looked and felt better, and had more confidence than ever, thanks to the teachings of Coach Lee. I am literally a new person. Anyway, we went out, had dinner, walked along the beach, and immediately regained what we had in the beginning. That was two months ago. I do not know what the future holds, but right now, things are incredible. I thank Coach Lee for not only walking me through the steps of getting my girlfriend back, but especially teaching me to look inward during this very difficult situation and make improvements on myself, and have fun. Coach Lee’s teachings were the main reason that I am in a great situation today. -Steve
Funding for this project was provided by the United States Department of Health Services, Administration for Children and Families, Grant 90-FE-0123. Any opinions, finding, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this material are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of the United States Department of Health and Human Servies, Administration for Children and Families.

The ones who are close to us can easily stab us in the back. Her friends or ex friends were not in her position. I would advise you to open your mind and let the “friends” exit out. A relationship does not include more then 2 people. You mentioned she did not clear it out with her friends. We don’t often see the need to make the close individuals understand as we perceive that they must already be seeing our point of view. Small situations can easily be turned into gigantic ones.
We spent that summer together inseperable after that. At the end of the summer he told me he loves me. In that moment I truly forgave him and saw that he had made the mistake out of fear, and open wounds from his last (and only) real relationship… I realized the poor guy had never even experienced true partnership and love… I was excited to show him how a real partnership can be, and how lovable he is.
Commit to having a better relationship. If your ex-boyfriend takes you back, you both need to take steps to make sure that the same problems that caused your last breakup will not interfere with your relationship again. Talk to each other about what kinds of conflicts you have had in the past and how you could deal with them more appropriately going forward.[9]
Advice from a male perspective anyone? I am dating a man who is 11 years older, I’m 26 and he is 37. He works out in the ocean and a lot of times we have minimal conversation via text/call. But when we are together everything is great and we get along very well. When he doesn’t have to wake in the wee ours or work out of town, he is with me every single weekend. We have been together six months and I have met all his close friends and friends kids. I have done well so far in respecting his space and he respects mine also. When he’s a weekend away with his guy friends, I am understanding and just ask him to contact me once when he is back in town so he feels he is not missing out on what he loves. However, this past weekend he had a sailboat race on the weekend which he let me know in advance and we made had plans for friday night. He reached out friday night saying that turns out he had to be at the venue in the wee hours so he would not be able to make our plans. I was emotionally unstable that weekend due to some work stress and family leaving so I needed him the most that friday. I did not think of my actions and instead of politely rescheduling for Monday, I blew him up – sent him various texts showing how I did not appreciate he canceled although it wasn’t his fault. I called numerous times in the weekend and texted many times while he was supposed to have time with his friends in the tournament. On Sunday I was so desperate that I passed by his house. His roommate was there and told me he hand’t come home yet. Since I blew him up friday, I have had no response to any of my texts nor has he answered any of my calls. I am very afraid that I scared him away and threatened his freedom. I also came out as desperate for going to his place. Today is Wednesday and I hadn’t reached out till Sunday. I sent him a very short/casual text today apologizing for taking out my stress on him and for not letting him have his space, to which I got no response. I am going to wait a few days and hopefully he will come around, as our relationship has matured and he’s told me how much he cares for me. Did I blow this up completely since it has been 4 days with no response?
Would if children were involved??????÷!!! EVEN AS CLOSE FRIENDS FOR A COUPLE Of YEARS!!! Four children involved…..one mine, three his. My daughter and his daughter in same school and class. Last time I heard from him waS a text messge New Years Eve….told me he was still working. The guy is 47…..it sucks for me….but my child wants to know what happened to him….and wants to play with his daughter. Not only that…his daughter and my daughter taLk in class and tell each other they want to play.
It is best to look at response time as a gauge of how interested the other party is in what you are saying (just like word count.) For example, in my book, I give an example where I was texting a girl and I responded to her texts every few hours. Based on that you can assume that I am not very interested in what she is saying. However, if I was texting a girl that I was very interested in and I responded to her texts every few minutes then I am definitely engaged in what she is saying.
I’m kind of having the same problem but I’ve given him like 3 months of space should I keep waiting I want to waste all my time waiting on him but I really really like him even lives in Canada and I live in FL we wanted to make it work and eventually move closer to where the other is but then after a very close father figure passed away he started distancing himself more and more we’ve known eachother for 3 almost 4 years :(
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